NEELY BRUCE · INTERVIEW SERIES

In
Conversation.

WITH GEORGES DUPUIS · NEW CONVERSATIONS EVERY FEW WEEKS

Composer and pianist Neely Bruce sits down with Georges Dupuis to trace a life in American music, from the Okefenokee Swamp and the Grand Ole Opry to the concert hall. Pull a record from the rack to read.

Lila Mae Hemphill Neely, Neely Bruce's grandmother, in a hat and long dress, reaching toward a rosebush in front of her house
Granny Neely · Lila Mae Hemphill Neely, Jackson, Mississippi
DupuisWhat do you know of your ancestors before your parents? Did you live to see any great-grandparents?

I didn’t know any of my great-grandparents, and I only knew one of my grandparents well. My grandmother Lila Mae Hemphill married J. T. Neely. They had two children, my Uncle J. T. and my mother, Mary Beulah Neely. She is my grandmother who is pictured on the website — looking very grandmotherly in front of her house, in middle age, in Jackson, Mississippi.

This is not the house she lived in when I met her. The Jackson place was a boarding house she ran to support herself after her husband died. At the end of her life she lived in Mendenhall, Mississippi. Her husband, my grandfather Neely, died before I was born.

My grandfather on my father’s side died when I was two or three. My paternal grandmother was named Pearl Mitchell. People called her Granny Pearl. I did know her, but not well. I was a pallbearer at her funeral — she died when I was twelve, and all six of her grandsons were her pallbearers. She was a very large woman, over 300 pounds, so we had our job cut out for us. She was quite a character, given to loud, aggressive talk.

They had ten children, including my six dancing aunts who are pictured on the website, along with my father, Woodrow Wilson Bruce, Jr. He was the third of the four boys, and everyone called him Jody.

My paternal grandfather, who was a doctor by the way, was Frank Bruce — Dr. Frank. Actually, his name was Francis Marion Bruce. He was named after the Swamp Fox, a general in the American Revolutionary War, so called because he operated in the swamps. I like to think he fought in the Okefenokee, but he actually fought in South Carolina. He was very successful in defeating the British in swamp battle.

My mother had me when my father was in Officer Training School for World War II, so she filled out the birth certificate without him there, and she named me Frank Neely Bruce, thinking that my grandfather’s name was Frank! She never knew that he was Francis until after the fact.

Engraved portrait of General Francis Marion in a tricorn hat and uniform with epaulettes, above his printed name and signature
General Francis Marion, “the Swamp Fox” · Engraving, Emmet Collection, New York Public Library
I could have been Francis Neely Bruce. I am Frank Neely Bruce because my mother was misinformed about her father-in-law’s first name.
— NEELY BRUCE

My grandfather was the only physician in Clinch County, Georgia, in World War II, which meant that everyone there owed him their life. There is a picture of him with my father as a boy in the Heritage Center at the former Stephen Foster State Park, on the southwest corner of the Okefenokee Swamp. The park has very recently been renamed Okefenokee State Park, but when I was going there it was Stephen Foster, the wild side of the swamp.

Dr. Frank made regular visits to the handful of people living in the swamp at the time, on Billy’s Island, which is accessible only by boat. The swamp is uninhabited by humans now, but lots of animals live there. Pogo, for example!

I vividly remember one family trip when we visited Billy’s Island. It’s a ghost town now, mostly foundations. My father walked around the ruins and said, “Well, that’s where the general store used to be, that’s where the post office was, that’s where so-and-so lived.” My father had a very good memory. I have a good memory too. Good memory is genetic, in my case.

DupuisAnd Stephen Foster Park — did you know he was a composer when you were playing there?

I never played there as a boy; I only went there as an adult. But of course I knew about Stephen Foster. I grew up knowing about him. Perhaps he was the first American composer I knew by name and associated with specific tunes.

The reason the southwestern entrance to the Okefenokee was named for Stephen Foster is the Suwannee River. The swamp, an extraordinary flood of fresh water, is the headwaters of two rivers. The Suwannee empties west into the Gulf of Mexico; the St. Mary’s empties to the east. Ships in the old days would sail upriver into the swamp from either coast to refill their water kegs, because the water is so pure.

DupuisDo you remember, in your childhood, the feeling of the area — the swampiness, the humidity?

I remember hot, humid South Georgia vividly, because we went fairly regularly to visit relatives. We would go to Mendenhall, Mississippi to visit Granny Neely, and to Homerville, the county seat of Clinch County, where my father’s family lived. Homerville had a steady population of 2,000. It was 2,000 for ever and ever! The 2020 census says 2,344.

I remember where the drug store was, where the movie theatre was in the middle of town, where my cousin John Ferdon’s house was, which has since burned to the ground. Homerville was a severely segregated town. There were plenty of Black people who lived there, but they lived on the outskirts of town.

DupuisWere you able to make any Black friends?

Not in Homerville, but I did know a number of Black people in and around Birmingham.

DupuisHow many places did you live before your first grade in school?

This is a very important aspect of my life. In my youth my family was very peripatetic. My mother once told me that they moved fourteen times before I was two years old — roughly a three-year period with fourteen different residences. I have no specific memories of the towns I lived in before the age of four.

I know about Wiggins, Mississippi, because that’s where my sister Linda was born, and Hattiesburg, where my brother Woody was born. Hattiesburg is where, in my mother’s youth, Mississippi Women’s College was. She went to college there but did not graduate, and she always regretted it. She was a super-duper secretary her whole life. Her last position was secretary to one of the Majors at Valdosta Air Force Base. If you’re the secretary to a Major, you’re basically running that division. My mother was very happy to tell the Major what to do.

DupuisAll the moves — were they army-brat related?

Not all, but some of them were. I was born in 1944; the war was over in 1945. My father considered staying in the Army, but he was not temperamentally suited to it, nor am I. Daddy wanted to be his own boss. He was in the Army Corps of Engineers, and his principal service was in the Occupation Army of Japan. He was part of a team that rebuilt bridges in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

He came back and went into the construction business, all over the small towns of the Deep South. After World War II there were still lots of small Southern towns without public waterworks or sewage systems. He built many of these.

DupuisAnd that was the great 1950s postwar industrialization of America — the building of highways, almost the first transformation away from rural culture into city life.

That’s correct. What he did was build or upgrade the water and sewer systems of lots and lots of towns. By the time all three of us children were born, he was typically not moving the family all the time. He would leave home early on Monday morning and come back on Friday night.

The Friday night ritual was always the same. We would listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

My first memories of music outside of church are every Friday night listening to the Grand Ole Opry. I grew up with the sounds of country music in my ears.
— NEELY BRUCE
DupuisHow about the Met Opera on Mondays and Tuesdays?

I started going to performances of the Metropolitan Opera soon after we moved to Birmingham. At that time the Met rented a train and took entire productions from New York to Atlanta for a short Southern season. This began in 1953 and continued through May of 1960 (see below). My musical taste and my musical awareness really expanded during this time. We’re talking about the difference between when I was six and when I was in my early and mid-teens.

I saw my first opera — I’m almost certain at the age of eleven, but it could have been even at the age of ten. WOW! I just checked the Met Archives. The year was actually 1953, and I was all of nine years old. The opera was Carmen, on the stage of the Birmingham Auditorium, where all of these performances took place. Risë Stevens was Carmen. I was spoiled from the get-go, and fell in love with opera overnight.

Black-and-white portrait of mezzo-soprano Risë Stevens as Carmen, with long dark curls and hoop earrings, leaning forward over a wooden ledge
Risë Stevens in Carmen, 1959
I was spoiled from the get-go, and fell in love with opera overnight.
— NEELY BRUCE

Allow me to mention my other early opera experiences. My mother made sure that all three of her children saw Amahl and the Night Visitors, produced at the First Methodist Church in downtown Birmingham, just a few years after its premiere on NBC Television in 1951. In high school I saw Down in the Valley by Kurt Weill at the Birmingham Conservatory; my high school chemistry teacher, who had an excellent voice, had a role in it.

And before ISS, my indefatigable mother, always on the lookout for cultural opportunities for her children, took us to see two opera films: Hansel and Gretel (a film made with puppets, which featured the voices of Anna Russell as the Witch and Helen Boatwright as the Forest Bird) and the 1955 film by Paul Grimault of The Nightingale by Stravinsky. I continued to attend the Met in Birmingham productions through my high school years. See below.

DupuisBut you also had written somewhere about Webern in high school. You were also listening to things that weren’t on the charts.

Yeah, that’s right. I went to the world’s greatest high school, which is Indian Springs School, just south of Birmingham. It’s still going strong. I have lots to say about Indian Springs but we shouldn’t get too far ahead of the story too soon.

The boys at ISS were divided into two groups: the boarding students, and a smaller group of day students who commuted from Birmingham. Some of the boarding students, including me, would stay on campus over the weekend. The town hall was a large room with bleacher-type seating. The entire student body and faculty could meet there; it was also where the Glee Club rehearsed. A very good hi-fi system had been installed. My musical friends and I would go into the town hall on Saturday mornings and play all kinds of things. We liked to play loud, noisy music.

We played Wagner excerpts, Strauss tone poems, a lot of noisy, fun stuff. But anyway, one of my cohorts (probably Rick Crosby, the son of the Associate Director of the school) had recently acquired the four-LP set of the complete works of Webern, recorded by Robert Craft in the mid-’50s and released in 1957. One can listen to four LPs in a single sitting. So in a single sitting, we listened to the complete works of Webern. I was fourteen when this happened.

Album cover of Anton Webern: The Complete Music, recorded under the direction of Robert Craft, with WEBERN in tall letters on red, olive and black vertical stripes and a small photo of Webern
Anton Webern: The Complete Music · Robert Craft, Columbia Masterworks K4L-232, 1957
DupuisDid you all look at each other with a little bit of “what is this”?

Probably, but what I remember was I listened to it. All of us were musical omnivores, so we probably took it in stride. By that time I was completely hooked on listening to new music.

My parents moved away from Birmingham in 1958 and were living in Homerville, Georgia. I was going into Birmingham on the weekends, and spent the afternoon at the Birmingham Public Library listening to recordings. These would typically be recordings of new music. The ones that I remember were Schoenberg and Ives and particularly Bartók, who was my first great love among twentieth-century composers. Stravinsky got in there, too. But anyway, we’re way ahead of the game . . .

One can listen to four LPs in a single sitting. So in a single sitting, we listened to the complete works of Webern.
— NEELY BRUCE
DupuisOkay, let’s back up to when you were growing up with your siblings and life in the house. What was that like? Was your mom a housewife or did she work as well?

She worked as well, throughout my boyhood. The three of us, her children, were frequently in the care of Black servants. The one I remember the best was a woman in Fultondale, Alabama named Dessie Pitts. Dessie was wonderful. She was a very high energy woman, and a good cook. She was also a disciplinarian and didn’t take any crap from us. The whole family was very fond of her.

I also remember another incident from my childhood in Fultondale. I talked incessantly as a boy, and still do if given the opportunity. My mother got really tired of me talking all the time. She hired a Black teenaged boy to take care of the yard, with the proviso that I would stay outside with him while he was doing the yard work and he would listen to me talk. He was a good listener, and also a fine storyteller. I wish I could remember his name. He was very friendly and he took good care of the yard. He knew stories from the Arabian Nights.

It may surprise some readers of this interview that a Black teenager in Alabama would know the Arabian Nights, but why not? Anyway, that was my introduction to the Arabian Nights and he told me the story of Sinbad the Sailor. Any time I revisit the Arabian Nights for whatever reason, I think about this young man and still wish I could remember his name.

DupuisScheherazade!

What would be the male name equivalent of Scheherazade? I don’t think there is one. Anyway, he was terrific. My mother probably would have remembered his name. She remembered all kinds of things. I should have asked her his name while she was still alive.

I checked out the Met Archives. It turns out that my years of attending their performances in Birmingham coincided with the years they did these run-outs from Atlanta — 1953–1960. I saw them all. The first opera was on a Monday evening, the second on Tuesday evening. The specific operas, by year, were:

1953: Carmen, Aida
1954: La Traviata, La Bohème
1955: Faust, Tosca
1956: Le Nozze di Figaro, Rigoletto
1957: La Périchole, Il Trovatore
1958: Samson et Dalila, Il Barbiere di Siviglia
1959: Die Fledermaus, Tosca
1960: Madama Butterfly, Andrea Chénier

This was something of a golden age for singers on the Met stage. In addition to the aforementioned Risë Stevens (who was also Dalila in 1958), I heard Leonard Warren as Rigoletto (he died just a few years later), and many other wonderful singers, in major roles, in their prime. Licia Albanese, Victoria de los Angeles, Jerome Hines (a personal friend of Dr. Hoggard, BTW), Eleanor Steber, Robert Merrill, George London, Zinka Milanov, Richard Tucker . . . I could go on, but you get the point.

I remember most of these performances. I remember their look, their feel, and sometimes their sound. There were only two operas I didn’t like. La Périchole seemed stupid to me. The only purpose this production served was to be a vehicle for Cyril Ritchard, and I wasn’t impressed. Mentally, I dismissed Offenbach. (I completely changed my mind about that composer when, years later at UIUC, I saw Orpheus in the Underworld, and I discovered The Tales of Hoffmann. Hoffmann remains one of my favorite operas, a great masterpiece.) The other opera I didn’t like, and I still don’t like, is Andrea Chénier.

With such an introduction to this wild and glorious art form, it is no wonder that as a mature composer I have written three full-length operas and have begun a fourth.

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